What SEO Will Be Tomorrow And Beyond With Josh Bachynski

750x240_Josh Bachynski

Matt sits down with Josh Bachynski, an ethicist and SEO consultant, and discuss about white hat vs black hat SEO, Google’s algorithms for ranking page sites including RankBrain, Panda, Penguin, and Pigeon. At the end, they discuss Josh’s documentary called Don’t Be Evil: Google’s Secret War and he explains why everyone should be aware about it.

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Discussion points:

00:53 Josh explains on his falling out with Barry

02:48 Discussion on the practice of some SEO companies attacking web sites with bad links

07:30 Josh talks about SEO as an information industry

12:27 Josh chooses content quality as what really works in site ranking

14:20 Josh breaks down the 2016 algorithm with RankBrain

20:00 Safe Browse

23:45 Fake social network accounts utilizing bots

28:20 Josh describes how he resurrects troublesome sites from the dead

34:00 On what Josh would do with $5000 for a customer

44:20 One or two word phrases about the big names in SEO

46:31 Josh talks about his movie

51:15 Where to find Josh 

Transcription:

Matt Coffy: For taking the time to hang out with me for a few minutes here.

Josh Bachynski: My pleasure.

Matt Coffy: You are one of my luminaries to get on the podcast. I think it’s been six months since I started trying.

Josh Bachynski: I apologize for that. It’s just been crazy busy.

Matt Coffy: You should be busy. So let’s ask the most important question. What happened between you and Barry? Why are you guys not friends anymore? What happened to those podcasts? Those were so much fun. You can see the wincing in Barry’s eyes as you guys sort of manipulated each other’s thought processes and trying to keep it one step ahead of each other. Did you just get to a certain point where Barry is like “Listen, I’m done.” Or was it more like “You know what, Barry? Stop sucking it up.”

Josh Bachynski: The short answer is basically he wants to stay on Google’s good side, and I don’t care obviously about staying on Google’s good side. So that changed his politics and dominated his politics. My view dominated my politics. Our politics were sadly mutually incompatible. That in a nutshell is it.

Matt Coffy: The funny thing is-and I’m just going to have to say this joke-is that Barry wears a black hat.

Josh Bachynski: Yes.

Matt Coffy: Had to say it. It’s just something I had to say. White hat, green hat, blue hat. What is a hat? Why did someone put hats to the SEO? Is there something gunslinging over at SEO, isn’t there?

Josh Bachynski: Yeah yeah. Well, I think it comes from hacker terminology originally. But you can ask the same question, why did it get into the hacker terminology? So yeah, I think that’s the old cowboy movies where the bad guy wore the black hat and the good guy wore the white hat. It’s annoying and philosophically telling if someone says that if you’re breaking the rules, therefore you are a bad guy, therefore you’re wearing a black hat. Of course, that’s not always necessary the case. It’s an unfortunate distinction but it’s one that Google definitely decided to buy into to use in their propaganda to say, “Anyone breaking our rules is unethical; therefore we are ethical.” By the transit of property, because we’re not them, we are ethical and anything and everything we do to everybody else is justified.

Matt Coffy: Isn’t orange the new black anyways? So maybe we should be orange hats to kind of keep up with the trends?

Josh Bachynski: Yes, definitely. I think we need a rebranding. We need to rebrand the entire industry definitely.

Matt Coffy: I was sitting down with a potential client yesterday. It was a very prestigious law firm here, about 10 lawyers in the law firm. They represented monster cases and stuff like that. I sit down with them and go, “You know, look at the back end of your site. You guys basically have all Viagra and Cialis links pointing to your web site.” Of course, they’ve been under attack from a negative SEO attack. But what was more true to the word, which was they started looking for SEO companies about two or three weeks ago. Just by chance, that’s when all these links started coming up. Interesting how the industry could go to a certain point. I contact all these SEO companies to start with and so SEO companies sees opportunity. Runs an automated program, blasts the site with Viagra and Cialis links, then calls back the customer and says, “Hey, you got a problem here. We got to fix this.” And they get the work. Something like an interesting, almost like a doctor who when you walk into the office, “I’m not sure what’s wrong with you” and they basically give you a pill or a shot, and you come back two weeks later and you’re like “I’m really feeling not too good.

“SEO is imminently strategic. It has always been imminently strategic.” -Josh BachynskiClick To Tweet

Josh Bachynski: Right, right. Is that real? Do people really do that?

Matt Coffy: I’m not surprised.

Josh Bachynski: I hope not, in terms of the doctor. But in terms of the SEO, definitely yeah. That’s the new shady way of doing it, right? People still do this, but in the mid-2000s, they would build all the links to a 301 address and just 301 leeches to the target client. When the client stopped paying, they would turn off the 301 and suddenly the rankings would plummet. You weren’t buying links in so far as you weren’t buying page ranks; you were renting page ranks. But yeah, unfortunately Google has made everyone terrified of buying links or links in general and people are disavowing even healthy links or links they shouldn’t bother disavowing. In my opinion, they shouldn’t be disavowing anything unless they received a manual action. So because of this fear, unscrupulous SEOs can take advantage of this and start building crap links to its site and say, “You’re going to have a problem. There’s all these porn links. There’s these Viagra links. Google is going to have a problem with that.” Of course, Google is not going to have a problem with that at all. If 80 percent of your portfolio was of a different topic that you were about, then yes, adult content notwithstanding. But otherwise, Google is not going to care about that. They’re either going to count link juices. They’re actually helping them.

Matt Coffy: Right. And this is prevalent. Everybody is getting smacked around with these silly links. We’ve had our problems as well but it doesn’t really do too much other than just cause general hysteria. Really, it’s like a license to fish in a way with tainted bait. I just ate sushi so I hope my bait wasn’t tainted. I was thinking like literally you could just-not that I would do this-it just made me think yesterday when I was in this. What’s preventing just an ultimate sort of tactic, an SEO company, whatever, you start railing people’s sites with crap links, you just send them a message and say, “Hey, we noticed it’s showing pictures,” and explain how it works and be off in your way? I think it’s sort of like the underpinning of what I think is the industry is about which is that it’s really just an information industry. It’s like what information you have to provide these guys with whether good, bad, or different. There’s obviously results that get driven from us doing the right things to build strategy for customers. It’s almost like Google is propaganding itself out there. You do all naughty, naughty stuff, as long as the customer has some understanding or usually one of their marketing people in their team or somebody knows a little bit enough, you can scare somebody quickly.

Josh Bachynski: Definitely. I think you’re totally right. It is completely an information industry. That’s 95 percent of what I do is educate people. That’s what a consultant does is educate people. I think SEO is imminently strategic. I think it’s always been imminently strategic. If you didn’t do your keyword search to begin with, then you’re going to choose the wrong company name for crying out loud, especially if your main channel, if it’s a local business, your main traffic channel or main advertising channel is going to be organic search and Google local in particular. For example, just yesterday, I had a client who I was about to write their web site and they had already chosen their business CMS. I said, “Whoa, whoa. Let’s get on the phone first.” They wanted me to do some SEO services after that. That’s not the way to do SEO anymore. It’s more strategic. It’s more about information. It’s more about making the right choices from the start. I’m going to make a fictitious example because he probably doesn’t want to be named. He was selling car covers. Let’s say he chose his name to be Eco Wraps or something like that because it’s car wraps or car covers. So I did keyword research and I showed ten times the amount of people looking for covers as opposed to wraps, so I said, “You should be calling this Eco Covers, not Eco Wraps because people are going to see the name in the EMD, not the EMD per se, but in the partial match domain. They’re going to click that way more than they’re going to click Eco Wraps or something like that.” I see this again and again. It’s kind of a change. It’s not that tweaking your title tags is important for keywords although it is minorly. It’s not that having the keywords in the URL is important. It’s barely important. Both of those things tell Google RankBrain that the site is probably about a topic XYZ. But it is much, much more important to have human beings see that and click it because it’s exactly what they’re looking for. Because people are busy and they’re not paying attention and they’re trying to find Pokemon at the same time and they’re trying to dodge taxi cabs at the same time. If they’re looking for car covers, they’re going to click on the first thing that says car covers to them, right? I told him, “You need to put this in your name. 10 times people are going to search it. You’re going to get way more traffic, way more eyeballs, higher click through rate, that kind of thing.” That information alone could save a business. SEO is completely about information and Google’s job is to put misinformation out there for the most part or the information that they want people to know and think and how they want the industry to operate. I got to take that. I got to listen to all the other SEOs, all the experiments they’re doing and I got to do my own experiments. I got to see how my Google is doing and I got to figure out what the truth is in the middle, factoring out everyone’s political interest like Google wants us politically to believe this because it’s in their interests. Other SEOs selling service XYZ want us to believe that service XYZ work because they’re selling it, so I need to strip that out because it’s in their interest and I need to find what the truth is in the middle as the raw consultant that I am, not really selling a package kind of service.

Matt Coffy: On that stream of consciousness-thank you by the way. That’s a great lead into what my next question was, so bravo. What does work? I want to ask you this because obviously you could say there’s 10 different factors and it’s off page, off page. But what the market is buying today, what we’re seeing a prevalence of is guest post blogs, right? Matt Cutts in his infinite wisdom and of course in your kindred spirit together. I know that you guys probably built a tree fort, like hung out all day. Really at the end of the rope, it is sort of a perceptional game. Sure, you can get a link at the Huffington Post or a really high end blog. From a visibility standpoint, the customer could treat that as very important PR-related thing to do. But the link juice is obviously a factor. There’s a lot of discussion-and you know this as well-that links don’t matter anymore. That hey there’s a whole body that says you just need to do click-through rate at traffic because at the end of the day Google is going to measure your site in comparison to other sites in traffic going to that site. Then the rise of this crowdsearch.me and the rest of these sort of automated or semi-automated or human being actual people, that they claim, to do click-through rates and traffic automation. What do you think works if you’re going to say, “I’m going to do this one thing”?

“You can’t beat Google at a technical game.” -Josh BachynskiClick To Tweet

Josh Bachynski: If I had to choose one thing, then it would definitely be content quality. That’s the one thing you could conceivably rank a site on is content quality. I’m going to put about a million caveats on to that. It’s exceedingly harder of course and exceedingly expensive to make a magazine-quality website that has the best possible user interface that gives exactly what the customer wants in exactly the way they want it in exactly the speed they want it and surpasses and exceeds all their expectations in terms of buying, in terms of service, in terms of usage of the website so much so that your conversion rates are like 60 or 70 percent. Your click-through rates on the Google search are 20 to 30 percent at least on long tail terms. On head terms the same, and on brand searches even higher like 70 percent. You’re definitely the thing they’re looking for. When they search for ABC, most people are clicking on you and not like is ABC a scam or something underneath that or some competitor. In theory, if users are that happy about it, they’re bookmarking you. They’re making you their favorites in their browser, which I believe is being tracked. They’re coming back. They’re telling their friends about you. They’re sharing you. Maybe even if one or two of them are still running a blog, they link to you which is highly, highly likely. If you have to put my boots to the fire and say what’s the one thing, that’s the one thing. That would be the complete white hat idealist way of doing it. Of course it doesn’t work that way mostly because people don’t want to pay the money. They don’t realize it’s that important. It’s hard to find people who are that experienced who are that good at it. It’s really difficult to find a designer who can make pretty websites that also understands user interface and click bleed and giving the user what they want above 500 pixels and not just giving you a pre-fab template that they think looks pretty. If you’re going to ask me what the one thing is, that will be the one thing, but I can break down the algorithm very simply in 2016 with RankBrain. It’s 33 percent onsite content keywords, technical speed, things like that, SCANA. 33 percent at least RankBrain click-through rate user metrics if they’re compiling over months and then giving a quality score and ranking sites based off of that as per the 2012 patent. And then the 33 percent offsite factor which I break down into thirds to be social buzz going on including all the smaller social buzz as well, not just the big sites but the smaller sites. Reviews and ratings outside SCANA, so microdata off the site that tells them that you have a five-star rating this or that.

And then the final portion of that, the final third of that third in my opinion is links. If everyone has everything else, everything else is on par and they have links, and yeah you’re going to need links too. I’d say right now links are about 30 percent important, 40 percent important because more or less everyone else has kind of run-of-the-mill quality and they’re all kind of there. I think by next year, this time next year, my prediction is that’s going to be even less. Links are going to like 10 percent of the algorithm because less and less people are making them. When I say links, I mean do follow links. No follow links I think are part of the algorithm and still part of the algorithm because that’s where all the social sites, not all of them, but a lot of them do is they can all follow links by defaulting. I think Twitter does for example. Pinterest still is making do follow links. I’m not sure if they do follow or unfollow. But ultimately I don’t think it’s going to matter because Google has got to follow the trend of what’s going on in the industry right now. If the link to the blogosphere is long dead, if the linkosphere is going away, which it is, and the social sharing is going to be the new way people are sharing because keep in mind Google already has over 50 percent of their traffic on mobile. Over 50 percent of their traffic that they’re paying attention to is on mobile. No one is making links on a cellphone. No one is editing HTML on a cellphone. No one is making links on a tablet. No one is making links on a smartphone. They’re going to have to be watching traffic. They’re going to have to be watching click-through rate. They’re going to have to be watching those kinds of things. The more and more experiments they see running them on, the more marble in this case. Ryan Fish has done experiments that the click-through rate kind of congests the ranking. A colleague of mine in Europe recently contacted me and showed me that even with automated kind of BOT traffic, he can push around rankings back and forth. It’s unsubstantiated. I haven’t gone any IP addresses in Europe to test this out personally. But it makes sense to me that it would work in Europe with BOT traffic and not North America because I have tried in North America and a lot of my colleagues in North America have tried as well with the crowdsearch.me kind of services. That doesn’t seem to work, that kind of BOT traffic because Google owns a big huge portion of the Internet’s backbone even more so in North America, less so in Europe. So I could see that kind of traffic working in Europe, but they can tell if you’re using a VPN in North America. They can tell if you’re using, for big chunks of the continent, they can channel by checking the IP routing and things like that. They can tell whether you’re using a VPN or things like that are going on. Think I’ll just discount and discredit all that kind of traffic. Of course, you can’t beat Google at a technical game. If you think you can technically beat Google, that is a losing bet because year after year they’ve got thousands, literally thousands of developers at the PhD level who are very, very smart and paid a lot of money to pay attention to this thing.

Matt Coffy: I wanted to actually go back with the BOT traffic. What if you run it through socials? This is the big query that I’m going to be testing is that you can now do crowd-based traffic, drive it through a social profile, and then it gets linked back or it comes through the social profiles as opposed to going directly to the site. Even though the crowdsearch stuff, it’s a roll the dice whether it does anything, but then you’ve got potentially to me to be able to use a social channel, so you see something coming through a social link, does Google still understand ramifications of coming through a social link that maybe wouldn’t normally be necessarily be counted directly on page? So you’re right. I think the social sharing is where this whole industry ends up being-and I want to talk to you about that in a minute- but I just want to clarify that if you thought that that might be a valid case to study.

Josh Bachynski: Totally, totally. People have already studied it and I have already studied it. Yes. I have links directly from Google, that this is the way it’s going to go and this is what they’re going to do. Matt Cutts told me point blank to my face that he was pissed off that Google had to write algorithms to clean up the spam on Twitter and to figure out what is a real account on Twitter and what is not a real account on Twitter and things like that and other social networks. That was two, three years ago. They’re already looking at that. That is well under way. Black hats have already been. When you think about it, it’s the perfect thing to tell them. Now that they’re tracking traffic through some websites and what’s going on through both something called Safe Browse, which is the malware utility that they control and they can tell every URL you’re clicking on and compare that to a database to tell whether or not they should throw out the red screen of malware death. They know everything you’re going into, and Chrome can follow your traffic. They have ties into Firefox. They can also follow traffic. IE, Firefox, and Safari and Chrome all use Safe Browse also on the mobile now as well. They know everywhere everyone is going. They can tell when a link is clicked. That’s the perfect way of determining whether or not that link is a valid link and they can tell whether that page is getting traffic. That’s the perfect way of telling whether or not that back link page is the actual valid back link page. If it’s getting traffic, it’s actually being read versus it’s just a blog that someone spun up and made an SEO nuke. No one ever goes there. No one ever reads it except for the Google crawler. Same thing with social networks. Dwayne Forster, formerly of Bing, was able to say, “Look, here’s the graphs. It’s a night and day difference to tell between these are a bunch of fake accounts that had been made on Twitter that are talking to each other versus these are real accounts. The footprint looks a whole lot different.” So unless you’re faking it really, really, really well and you’ve got really good programmers who can fake it super well, you want to spend thousands of dollars doing that, it makes more sense to spend hundreds of dollars getting people to boost this the white hat way or potentially thousands of dollars trying to boost it the white hat way because it looks more organic. But I’m pretty sure that’s how Google is telling what’s an authentic back link signal, so to speak, an authentic off-site signal. And then they can go “Okay, we’re going to count these signals because they look authentic.”

Matt Coffy: Let’s go back to social sharing for a second because they’re kind of two different avenues. We started this strategy to go down the path of what we call-I don’t know if you want to coin this but I better not say it as a TM yet but-experiential marketing. We’re putting together plans now with clients to take their information and, more useful as you know and I know I think is the big driver which is video, take as much video as we can from them of valued content, not crap but something of value, and then take that and start to run that through the different vehicles whether it’s Instagram or Facebook and get those going in both marketing from a paid push and also from an organic push and get those things shared as quickly as possible and put those on to internal pages so that we get nice click-through rate and good time on page and stuff like that. Obviously there’s another variation here where you could go out and embed stuff on other social accounts. You could build social accounts, age them, and then use those social accounts to start to create sharing from those social sites. I wanted to get your take on this whole piece of the business which I think is really looming large in most of the SEO people’s minds.

Josh Bachynski: As much as I understood what you just said, like I said, the problem there is faking the social fabric. You can do with eight accounts and I know guys who have done this. They make 8, 10, 20 accounts. They have bots. They all talk to each other with gibberish. That is very flat and very easy to detect. You would need hundreds of accounts. Google is not going to bother tracking anything until you got like 100 likes or 100 retweets or something like that. That’s kind of like the magic. That’s just a number I pulled completely out of my ass, but you have to imagine that they’re not tracking Joe Bot who has five followers who talks to Jane Bot. They’re not tracking anything like that. That’s going to help you 0.001 percent a rank if at all. You got to have someone with some follower wonk. You got to have someone with some hot spot social. It will pick things up. And trending, stuff that’s trending. Not necessarily the stuff that’s trending on the left-hand side that you see in Twitter. It doesn’t have to be national for Google to pick it up. But you can be damn sure that if it’s national, Google will pick it up.

My Twitter is completely organically made. I have around 3100 followers right now. It’s completely organic. I didn’t buy any followers. Google has a tweet I make within 5 seconds. Google sees that my Twitter is associated with all these other websites and my name. So my name is big enough that something that I talk about Google is picking up. That’s around the level that I can see you would need to be of Google picking it up and paying attention and doing this and that will lead to indexing. Hummingbird picking up what I’m talking about and SEO related is to me Josh is an SEO. Google knows me. The algorithm knows me. They know me as Josh Bachynski as an SEO. His website is here. His main social avenue is Twitter. They know that I tweet more than I go on YouTube for example. I post on YouTube on a regular basis. They know all of these things. I would say that’s probably the limit of where you need to get to. I was seeing this back when I had 2000 followers. 2000 followers would have been sufficient probably, but that’s the level it really needs to be at. You can extrapolate to Pinterest and stuff like that. I see stuff on Pinterest working really well, but unfortunately I’m not really able to test very well like buying advertising in Pinterest. You can get thousands and thousands of links if you do it a certain way to your website. I see that is a huge bonus right now. There’s all kinds of little caveats and each social network is kind of its own little universe if you know just how to tweak it and tailor it. Facebook seems to definitely make differences. Stuff goes crazy on Facebook. Google seems to somehow magically know about it. It really is, at least for some public pages anyway, it really is kind of that’s the way it’s going but it gets really difficult to completely fabricate. It has to be nurtured. It has to be mostly organic. That’s what SEOs do. It’s mostly organic and then you just kind of nurture it along and poke it, and poke it a bit, and then put the lens of Google and say, “Hey, Google. Look at this. This is what we’re doing.” And then they pick up the signals.

Matt Coffy: So let’s talk about the other side of the equation which is the troublesome sites. We tend to get customers who’ve been kicked in the teeth pretty hard, the ones that are basically, for some reason, their site will not rank like it’s been Penguin Pandadized, Giraffed, Elephanted, whatever you want to say. It’s been kicked. So they come to us. Sometimes we can figure out what the problem is but sometimes it’s just like there’s literally a hex on some domains like Google’s just decided “You know what? You had 3000 hits of traffic per month running. We hit you back in 2013 and that’s it. You’re just done. Like no matter what you do, no matter how you try and prove it, we’re still not going to get you above the threshold we put you on which is whatever 400, 500 hits a month. I just want to know if you’ve got-and this is going back to your theory that I think that Google just decides whether or not they like a business based on somebody’s rough judgment.

Josh Bachynski: Yes.

Matt Coffy:  Any thoughts on that on resurrecting from the dead?

Josh Bachynski: Well I’ve resurrected plenty of sites from the dead, and it can be done. I’ve resurrected sites that went back to their previous traffic levels. I have resurrected some sites that did not go back to the previous traffic levels but went back to satisfactory traffic levels or traffic levels that I’m saying, “Look, that’s what that’s what Google’s going to rank you for now” because there’s more problems than just Panda and Penguin. Before I say anything about to say I’m about to say, I’m going to say this caveat first. It is entirely possible and I have no way of knowing, and if there’s many reasons why I could say that they would do this, that Google just put a filter on a site and its permanent and there’s almost nothing you can do, it’s either there’s nothing you to get rid of it or there’s almost nothing you can do to get rid of it. Sites have been hit both by Panda and Penguin and/or Panda and Penguin and manual action. I’ve seen this before where it does just looks like there’s a hex on the site. But I’ve also seen sites like that where I was able to recover or able to get rid of this stuff. Google says publicly-and their philosophy, they like to think they’re the good guys-and so they like to think that they are forgiving and they like to think that if a site does the work, we will let them go. So unless you’ve got like three manual actions in the past in which case Google has said verbatim “Forget it, just burn the site and start again because we will never trust you fully again if you’ve got like three manual actions or something like that,” so if you’re in cases like that, I think it was just algorithmic. The way they make it is a kind of laissez-faire. Yeah if you get out, you get out. If you’re in, you’re in. So it is possible to get out even if you’ve been Pandaed and Penguined and Pigeoned almost to oblivion.

But keep in mind, the thing I want to say is, but keep in mind there’s more than just Panda and Penguin and Pigeon and these animals. There is Hummingbird and there is RankBrain as well. Google has made a large shift from 2008 to now in the last eight years whereas they would use to rank blogs, they used to rank information sites. They didn’t have as discriminant a sales funnel. They weren’t as discriminant in terms of like if you’re doing info queries, they might give you a sales site. If you’re doing sales queries, they might give you an info site. But now it’s not the case anymore. They’re much more discriminant because they’re watching where people click, and so they know exactly what people want to a much better degree generally speaking. If you’re higher up in the sales funnel, they’re almost always going to serve an info site. If you’re lower in the sales funnel in terms of the search query, they’re going to almost always serve something exactly tailoring what you’re looking for. If you’re right down the bottom of the sales funnel, if the client is already looking for somewhere to buy, they are not going to serve up a blog, they’re not going to serve information queries. They have a much better detailed knowledge of this is a sales query or not, and they’re going to give them, all things being equal, if they have a sales site and a blog site, a site that’s dedicated to sales with no blog at all. It’s clearly a service website where you can buy here. There’s no information about it. Really just buying it, just click go. If that’s where the searcher is in the sales funnel, that’s the site they’re going to serve up.

So realize what this means. This means all the traffic you used to get because you are a general catch-all blog and you had crappy blog articles that are ranking for long tail keywords, one that’s not going to work anymore because of Panda, two, that’s not going to work anymore because RankBrain knows that’s not what the end user wants. So if they have Site A which is just a sales site and Site B which is a sales site but also thought how to blog and because that was the way to rank in 2008, they’re going to serve Site A even though it’s like a five-page sales side because, all other things being equal, because that’s what the end user wants. The end user doesn’t want to read about it anymore. They’ve already read about it. Does that make sense?

Matt Coffy: Yeah of course.

Josh Bachynski: So a lot of customers come to me and they’re like “Why can’t I get my traffic back anymore?” I’m like “Well because it’s changed. The web has changed. Google has changed.” They don’t work that way anymore and people are kind of working on like this outdated information. So we come back to the information quotient again. People are working on this outdated information that they think that’s the way SEO still works. It doesn’t. RankBrain is laser-focused on giving end-user exactly what they want. You need to tailor your business in such a way that you want to know exactly where you are in the sales funnel. Do you want to show up at the top of the sales funnel when people are information gathering, and then put your product name and feed your product name into the process there and they do a different search for product name and then they’re laser-focused on making a sale? Or do you want to go right down to the bottom of sales funnel and forget the blog and forget educating people about it, you’re going to advertising a different way and get your name out there in a different way like buying ad space whatever it is you’re going to do or commercials or radio spots or whatever it is, and then they’re laser-focused on product ABC and they’re going to go right to product abc.com and make the purchase?

‘To help a business grow, what we need first is the right information and a strategy.’ -Josh BachynskiClick To Tweet

Matt Coffy: Good. Let’s talk about real stuff. I have $5000. I’m a customer. What are you going to do for me?

Josh Bachynski:  How would I spend that 5000 bucks?

Matt Coffy: Correct. That does not mean that you can go down to a casino and double it and come back and say, “I’ve made your money.”

Josh Bachynski: Oh come on. I think in fact that’s a good example. That’s the absolute last thing I would do. Every process I think every reputable SEO needs to take is a process of risk mitigation. I’m here to make you more money. I’m here to turn that $5000 into $10,000 or $15,000 or $50,000. Everything I need to do has to be based on a strategy of risk mitigation. What we need first is we need information and we need strategy. I need to find out what skeletons are in the closet. I need to find out what’s broken about the site. I need to find out how Google’s already treating you. So the first portion of that money is to do an in-depth comprehensible audit. Luckily, I’m a top tier SEO. I’ve been doing this since around 2000. My competitors who do SEO audits they would take that whole $5000, and they would manually crawl around your site and look at your pages and they make this 50-page report. I can do the same amount of work in a much shorter time and not take the entirety of that budget because I can do everything based off of statistics. As long as I have access to your Google analytics and your search console, I can see the net effect of what Google’s thinking about your site and what users are thinking about your site and I can do the audit from there. That’s what I would do is the first thing I would do an audit and then it would depend on what needs to be done.

Most customers they don’t even realize this is part of SEO but they need to redesign. The design is terrible. They’ve got like a 2 percent conversion rate. That’s just not going to cut it with Google anymore. Google is not going to send traffic to a site that only converts 2 percent. Other people are converting better. If you’re making an apples-to-apples comparison, if other people are converting better or looks like to Google they’re a better bet to convert better, Google’s going to send that traffic to another site. I need to boost the sales and I need to boost the conversion rate not only just for sales purposes but for SEO purpose as well. That’s usually the second thing we do typically because most customers have a design from 2004 made by their sons, cousins, brothers, uncle or something like that. I think that would just be, brother. Sure if you parse out the logic of that family tree. Anyway the design made by somebody that never thought about user interface, never thought about this thing called click bleed.

I love working with people from affiliate markets because at the very least they know about click bleed. They know the more clicks you throw in there and more scrolling you throw in there, statistically the more people you’re going to lose for making a sale. If you got a thousand eyeballs on that webpage, you should be able to get 600 sales or 700 sales. I’m able to get websites up to 60, 70 percent conversion rate. That’s my goal. Some people would scoff at that number thinking it’s ridiculous. Web conversion rates are classically very often like 2 to 5 percent, but when you’re sending 10, 000 people to the website you can make money on that. But it’s not going to be that way anymore. Google’s not going to tolerate that amount of failure quite frankly to sound Machiavellian about it. Google’s not going to tolerate that amount of that low of a conversion rate anymore because they want to keep the end-user happy, and so it’s not a good bet for them. That’s where the first chunk of that money would go and then anything else depends on what you need. You probably don’t have enough off-site signals. Some technical changes need to be made. We could fix all that in design. Off-site signals we have to take a look at doing some things like that, some advertising, maybe some viral marketing. It depends which hat you like to wear.

Matt Coffy: Is that the total 5000?

Josh Bachynski: Well, it would depend. It depends entirely on n the customer and how much work they need. Some design work could be could be done in that budget. Some design work could not be done in that budget. It depends on how crazy your content management system is. Of course you run into a lot of clients where someone made a custom content management system for them in 1998. Cold fusion or something, right? They don’t know anything about it of course. The client is like “I don’t design and I don’t know anything about web technologies, but I’m running a web business.” That kind of thing. That’s the general area where the first spend would go typically.

Matt Coffy: Then second spend, what would you do in month two once everything’s in alignment?

Josh Bachynski: Month two you need to do off-site signals probably for the most part. It’s pretty basic. Once the site is perfect and set up to convert perfectly and to be doing all that stuff right, I can usually get site to page one back to page one or to page one doing that alone. Then the off-site signals is usually supercilious but not always of course. It depends what your competitors have as well for off-site signals. And so that’s when you have to start looking at the social buzz generation. You have to start looking at getting people talking about you online and social spheres and also in the potential in blogospheres.

Matt Coffy: Gotcha. So now I want to ask you about the strategy we’re performing now for our clients just for a couple of seconds and then we’ll move on to our lightning round, and then we can talk about things you’re up to which are very interesting. I want to hear more about your movie and then we’ll call it a wrap. So for me off-site signaling as I mentioned before our kind of program is based off of building a third-party data recognition, so building all the citation of work so that the stuff is properly set up in the system for not only Google but for all engines to recognize name, the nap story. I think it’s still very important for a lot of customers who haven’t built that yet because the triangulation of all these data points seems to help put things together. Two, I think another off-site solution is to the big branded links which seem to be working for most of the clients that we’ve engaged with where we’re starting to bring up difficult, highly competitive terms back on the page one by doing some really strong branded links from very reputable like Huffington Post type stuff. Three is to do the social piece which is the, as I mentioned before, where we’re building out especially video to post on to the different social channels and with Instagram, Facebook, and whatnot, and Twitter and then build the structure around that so that it kind of counterbalances bringing people to the site because of those social channels bringing people through not direct through Google search but directly through different avenues. And then the fourth part which is more unique to maybe more regional searches which is to put content on the site that discusses regional-related topical relevant searches that would make sense. So just wanted to see what you thought of the efficacy of that strategy. You can throw them all over if you want.

Josh Bachynski: No, no. It sounds generally good like I said if you’re doing what I think you’re doing, and it’s really very impressively abstract sounding, if you’re doing what I think you’re doing, it all depends on how you’re doing it, but yeah that’s the name of the game. I mean you need buzz about you out there. You’re going to you need other people talking about you both in the social sphere and the blogosphere for what little bit the blogosphere still exists. I really focus on the on-site stuff more because I find that it’s less risky. You get better bang for your buck, better bang for your spend, and I can rank sites on that alone. I’ve got sites that have absolutely no social talking about them whatsoever or very little. I’ve got sites that are no links at all anyway, so little bit of social talking about them and no links whatsoever. Zero do follow links and ranking in highly competitive spaces where the impressions are in the hundreds of thousands per month ranking page one, ranking very high top page one, five or above. I’m getting like a CTR click-through rates of like 30, 40, 50 percent and getting conversion rates of 60 or 70 percent, and that’s just all from doing that the selecting the on-page properly in terms of the keywords, in terms of the speed, in terms of the type of site you’re looking for, in terms of the offer. There’s many ways to skin the cat and of course that’s not going to work in every niche for every person, but yeah I mean you definitely need to have the whole fabric put in place.

Matt Coffy: I like it. I like it. All right, let’s get to the lightning round already. Insert sound effect here. So I want you to give me a two or one or two-word phrase for each one of these people I’m going to mention who are in the SEO world. I will go through a lot. I mean there’s a lot of these guys. You can go through this, but I’m going to mention the main ones and I want you to just give me a couple of words. Let’s start with Dan Sullivan.

Josh Bachynski: You want me to explain Dan Sullivan?

Matt Coffy: Just what you think, so what comes to mind. You’re at a cocktail party. Oh Dan Sullivan.

Josh Bachynski: Shrewd conference.

Matt Coffy: Neil Patel.

Josh Bachynski: I don’t know enough about Neil Patel to tell you the truth.

Matt Coffy: Bruce Clay.

Josh Bachynski: White hat top tier.

Matt Coffy: Eric Inch or however you pronounce that last name.

Josh Bachynski: Same deal white hat top-tier.

Matt Coffy: Leodan.

Josh Bachynski:  I don’t off about Lee either to make a comment.

Matt Coffy: Aaron Wall.

Josh Bachynski: Aaron Wall. I like you’re Aaron Wall, a lot of what he says. So I’m just going to… Let me check took my two words. Shrewd guy. Let’s put it that way.

Matt Coffy: Bill Slawski.

Josh Bachynski: Diligent researcher.

Matt Coffy: Dan Anton.

Josh Bachynski: I don’t know enough about Dan I don’t think.

Matt Coffy: The OMG group.

Josh Bachynski: OMG indeed. Shrewd marketers.

Matt Coffy: You used shrewd in almost every one of these.

Josh Bachynski: Well it works in many cases.

Matt Coffy: You know I have to ask this last one. Barry Schwartz.

Josh Bachynski: Google patsy.

Matt Coffy: Makes me laugh. So now let’s talk about you because we’re going to wrap up here. We’ve been on for quite a while, and believe me I could do this every week and ask you probably more questions that you’d be interested in. But for the sake of just try not to give someone the two hour-long podcast that they won’t listen. Movie. Where is it? What’s going on? Can I see it? Should I buy popcorn? What’s the story?

Josh Bachynski: So here’s a story. So last year I started making a movie called Don’t Be Evil: Google’s Secret War. It’s a documentary documenting the lives of five or six small businesses that have been affected by Google’s recent changes. The movie has been shot. It’s been edited. It’s been through post-production. It’s about 99.9 percent complete. I’m now just really going through the legal phases. I’m trying to find distributors to buy the movie. If you know anyone who likes to buy documentaries, give me a call. I just hired a sales agent and I’m going through the distribution channels of trying to find a big distributor. I’m aiming for Netflix or Hulu or something like that along those lines, maybe the documentary channel on cable. Who knows? I’m open to any kind of those kinds of offers. It’s a very high quality film. It was done professionally by my producer in New York and my director in New York who also they do commercials for Mercedes and Denny’s and McDonald’s, some very high-quality. It’s a good film. I’ve had the test screenings. All the reviews were extremely positive. Yes you can see it. I can send you. I have a secret copy. I could mail to you or something along those lines where you can see it. Mr. Coffee. I’m not letting the general public view it yet, just select industry professional, select people in the industry either in the SEO industry or in the movie industry. I’m also just dotting I’s and cross the t’s with my entertainment lawyer right now. I’m just making sure that everything is above board so that when Google sees it they have they have little ability to sue my pants off. There’s nothing to stop Google from starting something. They can do anything they want whether it’s going to throw in a quarter or not. But there’s no reason for that to occur. There’s no reason why that should occur. It’s a documentary. I’ve cited all my sources. Everything else is other people’s opinions. We should be covered on our free speech in both Canada and the US. It’s just basically the life story or a short life story and the general what’s going on with Google right now and what we think is good about it and what we think needs to change about it.

Matt Coffy: Yeah I heard it was rated R for business carnage and also some slight nude scenes with Matt Cutts. I understand it was very difficult.

Josh Bachynski: Those didn’t get make post. We had to cut those to cut those in post. Itwe must’ve been cold that day. That was a joke.

Matt Coffy: Yeah I know.

Josh Bachynski: There are no nude scenes of myself of Matt Cutts or anybody else for that matter unfortunately.

Matt Coffy: I got you.

Josh Bachynski: It is definitely rated R for business carnage. As you can tell by the title, Don’t Be Evil: Google’s Secret War, there’s always a casualty in war and it’s usually the little guys. That is detailed to a great degree and I think it’s going to open a lot of eyes. I think it’s going to surprise a lot of people about what’s going on, even people in the industry about what’s really going on with Google, and yeah I can’t wait for people to see it. So hopefully it should be out in a few months, maybe half a year. I’m really now trying to get a major distributor for this. People just need to hold tight and it’s coming.

Matt Coffy: Last thing here. You had a great TEDx speaking event. Was it on the moon or Jupiter? I can’t remember what?

Josh Bachynski:  It was in the Northern Ireland. It was in the Northern Ireland. It was in Omagh, the town and that was last year in November.

Matt Coffy: People want to get in touch with you. I mean we’ve had our go back sand fourth. What’s the best way? Obviously YouTube. You’re very omnipresent in YouTube. If you go yes type in Josh’s name in to YouTube and basically just thousands or I don’t know how many, lots of videos.

Josh Bachynski: If you type in SEO in YouTube I should come up. I haven’t checked recently but for quite some time I’ve dominated the search for SEO in YouTube.

Matt Coffy: Cool. But if people want to contact you, hire you, bring you for their kids’ birthday party, what’s the best thing they should do?

Josh Bachynski: The best thing is always email me. So my email address is just my names joshbachynski@gmail.com. And yes email and we can definitely chat.

Matt Coffy: Yeah that’s cool and I really appreciate your time today. Josh. It’s been wonderful. I can’t actually wait to do it again. Maybe we could circle back in six months or a year and see what things have changed and we’ll find more of those pork business owners who have had their cat build their website which has happened by the way.

Josh Bachynski: Right, right. Yeah yeah.

Matt Coffy: Alright. Thanks, Josh.

Josh Bachynski:  It’s my pleasure, brother.

Matt Coffy: Good. Thanks. We’ll wrap this up and I’ll probably have it posted within about five days or so, usually by Monday I would think it would be up and running.

Josh Bachynski:  Cool.

Matt Coffy: Drop it into the podcast. I’ll give it a kick with a Facebook and boost it and all good. All good. I think you and I are good team. I could be the replacement for Barry. I can be the bad guy like I’m the bad SEO guy. You’re the good one, so you’re the white hat now.

Josh Bachynski: It’s mostly true actually.

Matt Coffy: I know. There’s nothing really left to do.

Josh Bachynski:  Yeah not safely I mean depends. I guess philosophically I’m black hat, but practically when it comes out I’m mostly white hat because quite frankly I don’t have a team of programmers sitting there waiting to hack sort of Google every day.

Matt Coffy: It just amazes me what I’m seeing in the field now. I’m so glad I’m a good guy because there’s a lot of naughty things you can do today to really replicate.

Josh Bachynski: Oh yeah. Yeah tell me about it. I know it’s getting pretty bad. All right, Matt.

Matt Coffy: Take care, man.

Josh Bachynski: Thanks a lot.

Matt Coffy: I’ll let you know when this is up and you can just drop it whatever where you want to put it, your feeds and stuff like that.

Josh Bachynski:  Yeah I certainly will do.

Matt Coffy: I might pick you up for one of these deals where I have to do an on-site pressure because might want to see if we can get you involved in some of our projects because they’re starting to get a little bigger and I think that’s where your budget would make sense.

Josh Bachynski:  Sure, okay. Makes sense.

Matt Coffy: Take care.

Josh Bachynski:  Alright talk to you soon.

The post What SEO Will Be Tomorrow And Beyond With Josh Bachynski appeared first on SEO NJ Company.

Emotional Readiness: Believing In The Future

CustomerBloom CEO Matt Coffy shares his thoughts about being emotionally ready and courageous to face the future so you’ll be able to focus on making progress in the present.

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Discussion points:

01:20 Matt talks about letting go and accepting risks

04:30 The truth about emotional readiness

Transcription:

It’s Matt Coffy here. It’s another episode of my journal read. Again, I do these journal reads pretty much once a week to make sure that we have folks who are interested in learning the entrepreneurial journey from my eyes. We built a digital agency. We’ve grown it to seven figures this year for the first time, and we’re really seeing some of the cadences that all businesses go through as they sort of mature into the first phase and sort of building up employees. The point of the journal is to talk about the discoveries I made and maybe things that can help you in your own discovery as you start maybe potentially bringing a business online or even in life just thinking about things as you go through your daily habit and structures that these things may end up giving you some advantages thinking through things a little bit differently.

Let’s start off today with emotional readiness, believing in the future. Delving into the realm of probability and possibility for the real effectiveness of feelings about business, the overwhelming concept still is about letting go and accepting risk. This is very interesting because I look back a year ago and these journal entries are from various times during the year. I just basically picked one. I think about the event that we had this May and how we were bringing people along to an event in another country and putting together a plan to bring about 20 people over to literally an event that was fictionally put into my mind. We constructed it and had an enormously amazing time. It’s really thinking about the higher in altitude we go, the farther away we are from the ground. There is movement but our wings grow wider. Confidence carries us above the clouds from yesterday as we dodge the hedge winds of the challenges. It’s when we have the tail wind of experience that can guide ourselves with the quicker spread of the wings.

‘The higher in altitude we go, the farther away we are from the ground.” -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

Really, what I’m talking about here in this journal entry is talking about the fact that this experience that I’ve had in the past helps me sort of move along faster. It would be very difficult for me to have the confidence to build out a beating on another country in the first couple of years of business. But now it would just seem automatic. Now I’m waiting for the next one. We got ourselves along gaining this insight really just overreaching thought by listening and accessing the thoughts of others who have endured such challenges. We want to learn and grow from these masters.

I didn’t invent obviously a get-together mastermind. But I had seen a lot of people who had done this. I’ve never actually been to an international mastermind, but I read, I’ve been through courses, I have listened to other mentors about how they built theirs and I built my own. So it’s a great story. It’s about being again emotionally ready to handle making these decisions.

‘In the realm of probability for effectiveness, the overwhelming concept still is about accepting risks.’ Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

Failing or falling does not need to happen, but because we’re aware of the data before we make these decisions. It’s an important step to maturing our thoughts. Questioning our surroundings is important to never stop improving the position as the one percent of improvements compounds over time. Thinking critically on the needs of the market in our case as a digital agency, as a marketing company, we need to grow the company very uniquely to take position and understanding that the models that support our growth factors are really specific. The models that support our growth factor are going to be very stringent on where we put our efforts. But we learn over time if you shotgun approach the growth of a business, it ends up really becoming a challenge over time because you can’t concentrate. There’s too many business models. Too many different ways of people interacting with businesses.

“Confidence carries us above the clouds from yesterday as we dodge the hedge winds of the challenges.” Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

The truth about being emotionally ready is to accept the possibility of the growth of the numbers that I want to achieve and that’s paramount. Really thinking around, again in our case, getting past the seven-figure mark for the first time. It’s understanding that we have to really mature our conversations around the people who will give us the answers, not conjecture, not theory, but case study material about the willingness to push down the mental walls from this day. This is really what the key of this discussion is about. Lessons are hard. Emotional readiness and being ready to believe in the future that you’re going to build is really hard; however, time is much harsher. So it’s making the effort to do the things that you need to do to get emotionally ready. That typically involves looking at other case studies or other mentors or other environments where you can start to really think if they got there, you can get there too.

Hope you enjoyed this episode. See you in the next one.

The post Emotional Readiness: Believing In The Future appeared first on SEO NJ Company.

Just Start: The War On Gonna’s

In this podcast episode, Matt Coffy, CEO of CustomerBloom, talks about taking more action on things that really matter. Many of us say we’re doing this and that but are these activities really getting your closer to your dreams and goals? Find out more in this podcast episode.

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Discussion points

03:00 On people who take action

04:00 Worrying too much

06:20 The challenges in opening a new division in the company 

Transcription

Welcome to another episode. My name is Matt Coffy, owner of CustomerBloom. Today we do a journal read that takes you through some of the experiences I’ve had and hopefully this will help gain some knowledge of things that might help you through your day in improving and upgrading things that you do and your thought process. We’ve built a pretty growing business here and the things that we do to try and enhance the experiences for other people relate to my meandering through some of the thoughts that from a day-to-day perspective when we deal with clients and just try to build our structure. Hopefully this knowledge passed along will present itself with some reminders of things that you could or should be doing for your improved business or lifestyle. 

Today we’re going to talk about Just Start, The War on Gonnas. There’s all sorts of wars. There’s war on poverty, war on crime, war on drugs. My personal war is the war on gonnas. Reading, writing, watching, thinking, deliberating, thinking it over, cracking it down-at what point do you execute? Planning to plan? Is that the goal? The possibilities are out there. What the challenge is is the people who are in Gonnaland. I have a war on these people in Gonnaland.

‘Even with risks around, the whole process of building is about taking on the challenges of getting rid of the gonna’s.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

So much in life is predicated on taking action. Taking a stab at the infinitesimal darkness that we see in front of us. The unknown, which is there which cannot be determined. However, like so many people, they’re afraid to take a run at it. They’re afraid to move forward. The one who has the best value wins. However, you actually have to start. With some of the customers and clients that we work with, I see this all the time. In fact, yesterday, we had another client who I literally told to leave because it had taken so long for him to make a decision over just the basic little nuances. I said, “It won’t work. Your decision-making capabilities are far too complicated for me to even understand how to put together a long-term plan.” I’ve dealt with this: business owners, other entrepreneurs, friends. The ones who make quick decisions and begin the process of testing out, taking their actions and moving ahead are the ones who are winning. They may not get it right the first time. They may not get it right even the second time or the third time. But they’re moving and that’s really what they’re doing. They’re taking the ore and putting it in the water and starting to paddle. It may be upstream but they’re making progress. The ones who have enormous amounts of time to think, justify, concern, consult are the ones who fall behind because they’re only just trying to do one thing: battle their fears in some recognizable manner in their brain. 

This is concerned about safety so much within the framework of business. A lot of the times, it’s just all imagined. The dollar is spent. The time invested. All these things are ahead of you that haven’t even happened are all imagined. It seems to me if you tend to let the universe help you grow, because in most people’s worlds, they want to grow. All businesses don’t want to fail. They want to grow. They want to try and help. Yet, there are exceptions. But in most cases, businesses want to help you grow and other businesses want to grow as well. But the concept of trying to move ahead and letting decisions be made are really what this is about. Yes, not everything is going to work out perfect. But this is the unnatural thriving of business and life is done by this fear process of the unknown. Due to this sort of common cold of the business model where we get hung up on trying to decide and think and lecture and read and review and watch videos and go on and on and on. There is just a certain amount of time when you got to make a decision and your best efforts have to be put behind that to make that decision to move ahead.

‘The ones who make quick decisions and begin the process of testing and taking action are the ones who are winning.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

When we look at nature, we look at a simple blade of grass, its purpose is to grow. That’s it. Grow and expand. We know the lawnmower is coming. It doesn’t know but it just keeps growing. In fact, it gets thicker. Every single time you cut it, it comes up again. This is really what you have to do in business. It just keeps coming back to that things are really wanting to grow most of the time and that even when the risk is out there that we have to watch out for, the whole process of building is about taking on the challenges of getting rid of the gonnas, the people who are gonna, do the things you are gonna do, the actions you’re gonna take. The war on gonna is the thing that today I think supports the biggest challenge in businesses. 

We just opened up a whole new division of our company. We’re going to be stretching out and growing and there will be new things. Never done any of these before. Are we going to make massive mistakes? A hundred percent guarantee we will. Are we going to unquestionably have problems and challenges that will arise? No question. It’s scary. I’ll admit. It’s not the easiest thing in the world to open up a whole new division of a company, some place we’ve never been before where we’ve had to invent new processes. But I’m going to guarantee you I will succeed. The reason why is because I’ve made a decision. I’ve made a decision to succeed and move forward. It won’t be linear. It will be up and down. But just making this choice to start and to continue to process is the goal for most business owners in their daily life is to try and consistently start on your project.

‘You should not allow analysis paralysis to stop you from moving forward.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

You see, it’s very simple. Very, very simple. Just start. Just do it. Move your body. Move the pen. Type on the keyboard. Start your project. Yes, to start the project, put down the phone. Get off Instagram and Facebook. Stop chasing Pokemon. That’s really embarrassing by the way. I saw two people out last night at nine o’clock in front of my driveway. I was like “Are you kidding me?” They were adults. Just start really. The magic is in that decision. Like Seth Golden has always said, “Go make something.” We’ll see you in the next episode. Hope you enjoyed this. Again, it’s Matt Coffy. See you at CustomerBloom.

The post Just Start: The War On Gonna’s appeared first on SEO NJ Company.

Breaking It: Where Growth Starts To Happen

In this daily podcast episode, CustomerBloom CEO Matt Coffy talks about making life simple and more productive by breaking bad habits in order to create better ones. Growth only starts to happen when you decide to break the bad habits that are holding you back.

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Discussion points

01:25 Where does decision fatigue come from?

02:45 Breaking old habits to form new ones

04:00 Matt talks about email overload as a contributor to decision fatigue

06:00 A cure to decision fatigue

Transcription

Alright. Hey, it’s Matt Coffy. I’m the founder of Customer Bloom. Today I’m going to be doing another reading from my journal. I put out these journal entries to help sort of think through the process of business. We’re running a seven-figure business here, marketing business, and we’ve come to a conclusion that by helping other people synthesize some of the activities and learnings that we’ve had, we can pass along some good dialogue and some good thoughts on things that are important that I crossed my paths on and things that for you might have an impact of my learnings and pass along some of the thought processes and solutions to things that occur on a daily basis. This is dedicated to those people who are interested in entrepreneurial activities and growing their business. Without further adieu, let’s move on to today’s topic. We’re going to talk about Breaking It: Where Growth Starts to Happen.

Breaking it. Well, what seems to be a negative breaking is actually a positive in disguise. I’ve fallen into a trap lately of not allowing myself to really decompress enough over the last couple of days and even felt a bit dizzy. But being dizzy from what? Decision fatigue can come from a loss of control of one’s environment. As things grow chaotic in some days, there seems to be an issue of trying to cover too much in a short period of time. Overwhelm hits and then we can’t organize our thoughts clearly enough to dive into the baseline efforts of solutions correctly.

‘What seems to be a negative breaking is actually a positive in disguise.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

What we’re really talking about here is looking at reasons why, in this case, I broke down and the fact that I’m literally at the end of the day dizzy. There’s a reason for this and we’re going to go into this. But this can happen from different angles. We don’t mean dizzy from the fact of physically dizzy, but mentally starting to construe thoughts where clarity becomes an issue, and when you start to get fuzzy on your thinking, you start to have problems with making decisions. That’s why I mentioned decision fatigue. Even though this is sort of a satirical thought, like how can you have decision fatigue, it does happen, and here’s the reason.

We have to break old habits and form new ones even in decision making processes. It’s never easy without a doubt. But breaking the walls down to build new stronger ones and building a better solid foundation of core upgrades to your system is one solution. This is where I came to the solution of this decision fatigue. Decision making at a higher level to peel back the real underlying item is of hand. Let’s talk about this. We must go to source and use our brain to go into 100 percent responsible mode. This is not an outside impact. This is a total internal impact. It’s not people and other things that are making me dizzy. It’s my decisions that are creating this. We need to solve the larger items, but at what level of understanding must we step back and first decide what we don’t want to do and break.

I realize that one of my biggest issues stems from email overload. This is a huge contributory issue to decision fatigue. My email is broken. My resolve is to look at this cause and to stake out what I don’t want to do and break it. Imagine this. What would you do as a busy person, a busy entrepreneur, a busy person during the day if you had no email? How much relief would you get knowing that you don’t have to look at your email during the day? This is the thought process that I have. What if we didn’t have email? What if I just said, “You know what? I don’t do email anymore.” What would happen? We’ve got Twitter. We’ve got Slack. We’ve got other ways to solve problems. We’ve got the phone. Going back to the 80s and 90s, we didn’t have email. How the hell did you get stuff done? It’s really interesting to think like now I’m at a point where I look at the email box, and it’s not that I have stuff that’s on fire. There’s just a lot of people who want my time and there’s a lot of other responsibilities you have. But really it’s the decision-making process and getting that accomplished.

‘We have to break old habits and form new ones .’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

I don’t want another day of looking at this email box full of bazillion things. So what’s the causes? What are the reasons why this happens? If you look back at this stuff probably about 20-30 percent of it is just stuff that somehow I’ve gotten on lists and it follows me down rabbit holes. Another 20-30 percent of it is team members who should be using our internal tools like Slack and our Dialpad service, like internal stuff. So there’s 40-50 percent that could immediately be impacted. We’re not going to obviously get rid of email. But the things that are critically important in there only should be there.

What can easily be fixed also a cure is completely clear as well. Really the cure to having a less decision fatigue day is to start to peel back pieces where you know you can break things and get them out of your way. I can feel easier that a simple decision will start to solve my breakage. Where else are things broken? This leads me to another consistently challenged issue. What else can I break? One of the things that I started to break recently was that I have to start to get up earlier because in order to get to the gym, there’s just no way that I can do it during the day. It just won’t happen. I’ve broken the rule that past 10 o’clock it’s literally I will not stay up. I will be in bed. I needed to break another thing which was my habit of staying up and watching something or reading late. These things need to be addressed in order to solve. So I’ve got to break things in other parts of my world.

‘Breaking the walls down to build new stronger ones and building a better solid foundation for your core upgrades is a solution.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

My question to you is, what’s broken in your world right now? What’s causing you stress? What’s causing you an issue that you know that you can break that if you look at the root causes that there are things that you can do to re-arrange where things are broken. You can solve problems by breaking something in front of it. Right now, what I’m going to do is break my email. I’m literally going to go in and just delete everything. I’m going to say, “Okay, everything’s archived.” Now let’s see from day 1 from the beginning today to the end of the day how much stuff is really, really critical. And then start to weed through it and say, “Alright, on a given day, here’s my email box.” 175 emails, whatever it might be. How many can we delete immediately or put on unsubscribe or tell the team “Do not email me” or tell the clients “Go to help desk” or whatever it might be? All these things need to be fixed as part of my breakage, which was in this case, the email dilemma.

Hope you enjoyed this episode. Hope it makes you think. Have a great time with learning how to break things and will talk to you in the next episode.

The post Breaking It: Where Growth Starts To Happen appeared first on SEO NJ Company.

How To Double Your Sales With A/B Testing With Justin Christianson

750x240_justin-christianson

In this podcast episode, Matt Coffy interviews bestselling author and conversion genius Justin Christianson about his years of experience running thousands of split tests on hundreds of campaigns and tips you can implement to get more out of your marketing efforts.

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Want to Download the PDF transcription? Subscribe below:

Discussion points:

02:15 The type of companies Justin works with

05:00 Justin talks about wrong decisions in the market

06:10 On how Justin and Ryan Levesque got connected

07:47 Justin describes his book writing process

09:00 On how the success of his book affected his career

12:45 On leading with the product features vs the benefits to the consumer

16:25 Where to take advantage of inbound traffic

20:30 The biggest lesson Justin learned

24:00 Time management and scheduling

25:45 Matt gives his opinion on offshore workers

28:22 Justin’s parting words to entrepreneurs and solopreneurs

29:25 Where to find more information about Justin and his company

Show notes

www.conversionfanatics.com – The company website

www.clyxo.com/justinchristianson – Justin’s social media website 

Transcription

Matt Coffy: Justin Christianson on the call today. Justin, say hello.

Justin Christianson: Hey, Matt. Thanks for having me.

Matt Coffy: Yes. I want to first say you’re the first professional bullrider I’ve had on this podcast.

Justin Christianson: I wasn’t quite a professional but I did bang it out around in the amateur ranks for sure.

Matt Coffy: What the hell do you do when you get up on top of a 800 lb animal and it doesn’t like you?

Justin Christianson: Hold on. You’re much safer on their back than you are anywhere else.

Matt Coffy: I just want to ask because I’ve never asked anybody. What compels someone to do that? Being from the northeast, this is something we don’t see.

Justin Christianson: I think a little bit is stupidity in that, but it’s nothing quite like the rush of doing it. But I just kind of grew up around it. So that’s what happens.

Matt Coffy: I suppose so if you’re just kind of used to it, you’re just kind of used to it and it’s just something that it happens. Of course we’re going to talk about some conversion strategy which you’re well entrenched in and I’m interested to talk to you about. I’m also interested in talking to you about mindset stuff. Give us just a two second, not history, but what you’re doing today and who you’re doing it for and then we’ll get into the questions.

Justin Christianson: Basically, we do conversion rate optimization. We do the split testing and the heavy lifting for companies to help them get more out of their advertising effort is essentially what we do.

Matt Coffy: For what size companies, that’s what I meant?

Justin Christianson: I guess probably the smallest we work with is probably in the 3 million range, but our sweet spot is kind of the 10-50 million range in revenue.

Matt Coffy: Gotcha. Is this your one environment that you work in or do you have multiple environments that you work in? Because a lot of guys like yourself will do coaching and I know you have a book out. There’s a lot of things that I want to talk to you about. But is that your one central sort of square now where you kind of hang your hat?

Justin Christianson: Yeah, yeah. I mean all of my focus is pretty much on conversion fanatics and building the company along with my business partner and team.

Matt Coffy: Gotcha, gotcha. It’s interesting because there’s so many different ways-I was thinking about this today-there’s so many different ways to run an internet marketing strategy and internet marketing business. With the commonalities between all the different platforms, once you get I’d say three or four years into this business, you have so much ammo. You could put your finger down anywhere and help anybody because there’s so much to do. I always thought the channels for us would be good. We run both wholesale and retail digital marketing for different environments with lots of different variations on a theme, and I always thought channels would be good. Then I was thinking guys like yourself are going after these very large environments where you’re basically taking what you’ve learned and grown it up into bigger accounts, at least that’s the way I kind of perceive it as.

Justin Christianson: Yeah, we definitely. I mean there’s a whole big world of business out there. We kind of stepped up the level of company that we work with and found that we can deliver much more value to those type of companies. So it’s just been a really good fit for our company in terms of growth.

Matt Coffy: What do you think from your perspective of seeing what you see in the market, where is the biggest hole right now where people haven’t made the right decisions yet?

Justin Christianson: I guess where I see it especially people kind of pushing that gap maybe trying to go from six figures to maybe their seven figure year is they’re really not focused. A lot of them have a lot of shiny objects syndrome. They think the next software is going to help them rather than just sticking with the basics and then being really, really consistent at doing that and then tweaking it to make it work in their favor in terms of numbers, put a dollar in, get $3 out. I think a lot of this is the stick-to-it-iveness with one particular method and not worrying about what the latest trend is with Snapchat or something like that instead of just focusing on where your customers are coming from and really expanding on what’s working. A lot of people don’t do that, the 80-20 rule and really narrow down to what’s proving out to be the most effective in their businesses.

Matt Coffy: It’s interesting that the foreword to your book was written by Ryan Levesque. That is a well-known name. How did you guys get started up? Is that from your speaking days?

‘The number one thing that people miss the mark on is they lead with the features of their product instead of the benefits.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: Well, he actually just lives about 20 minutes north of me, and it was weird because we’ve kind have been in the same circles but we had never officially met until actually after he wrote the foreword to my book. He was the only person that I asked to write the foreword and he said he gets asked a lot but he truly believed in what I sent him in terms of the book and he agreed. I had respected for what he did for the book Ask and all of the things he had done and come to find out after reading Ask it was actually mentioned in the acknowledgments of the completion, and we have really never officially interacted or worked together. But apparently I impacted him in some way as well as he did me.

Matt Coffy: It’s amazing how those things do happen when you don’t realize how physically close you are to someone, and you’re like “Holy crap! Next town!”

Justin Christianson: Yeah for sure.

Matt Coffy: Moving to the book-and I’ve had another discussion about books because I’m in the process of establishing my first table of contents and a couple of first pages of getting through the iterations of what it should be. How did you end up going into the book writing process? Because I know it’s almost like giving birth at some point. It’s like a long duration, at least for me it seems now even though I’m in the very infantile business of it. Can you talk a little bit about what got you started in that?

Justin Christianson: Well, writing a book had always kind of been in my bucket list for basically my entire career or the latter part of the years I’ve been in the digital marketing world. But I’ve never really had the official outlet for what I wanted to write about. There are so many different digital marketing books out there, and when I started really specializing in optimization, that’s when I’d found the need as we were working with more and more clients on educating people on the importance of optimization and split testing. More so everybody shouts from the rooftops on how you need more traffic and the latest traffic techniques and strategies there, but nobody was really talking about the other piece of the puzzle and that was the optimization. So I found people needed to be a little bit more educated on the importance of it and that’s what prompted me to write on that specific topic.

Matt Coffy: What did you find when you wrote the book how it impacted your career?

Justin Christianson: Fortunately enough it was a best seller. But it became number one on several different categories on Amazon. But I think it brought a lot more credibility to me and the services we provide. I didn’t set out for this to be the way it turned out but it’s kind of turned into kind of the glorified business card and there’s more credibility in the best-selling author status than just saying, “Hey, I’m a conversion rate optimization specialist.” It’s really helped in terms of the size of audience that we’re going after to really bring that level of credibility.

Matt Coffy: I understand that. I was wondering because obviously that’s sort of what book writing today is about. Most people think of it as sort of a sales tool as opposed to just writing a book about something and have it to be a legacy type of thing. I was wondering when you wrote the book, did you have an avatar you were thinking about? Because that’s my biggest challenge right now. I’m picking your brain on purpose on this one.

Justin Christianson: No. It’s kind of weird. I didn’t really have a specific person in mind. All I wanted to do was write a book that wasn’t fluffy because I read a ton of books. I read over 50 books last year and majority of them are just fluffed up. Since I was self-publishing it, I can do pretty much whatever I wanted. It’s a relatively short book at only 150 pages but I wanted to pack it with information that was tangible and actionable rather than just a bunch of hyped-up theory. I backed it up with a lot of case studies and specific examples and things we’ve learned actually being in the trenches. I didn’t really have a specific avatar in mind when I wrote it other than I’ve heard great feedback from people that are just beginning in their digital marketing careers all the way up to extremely-seasoned professionals saying that this was the best book written on the topic period. I’ve seen it kind of mix. So it appeals to a couple of different audiences and basically anybody who’s in digital marketing has learned something from it, at least what I’ve seen from the feedback.

Matt Coffy: Most of our customers are in the smaller range. Obviously you’ve got some pretty large customers. But it doesn’t matter really. At the end of the day, it’s all the same stuff to a degree. There’s a lot of low-hanging fruit. There’s a lot of like basic stuff. Even today when a customer came in and sat down at my office and was questioning, “What are you guys doing” blah, blah, blah. I’m like “Well, if you gave us your Ad Words account, we’d actually get you some sales. They ended up doing that and I said, “Look, no one even has a compelling headline. Like all your competitors are just like ‘Here’s our product. Buy it.’” I’m like there’s very limited, and this still stymies me. That we think because we’re in the space that everybody know this stuff. Really it’s like maybe 2 percent of the people actually know about what to do. And then of that 2 percent only a third of them are actually doing it correctly. I think this is just a monstrous market, and you’re right, no matter where you are if you put your finger down in small business, medium business, there’s so much ground to cover because there’s an act of copywriting, there’s poorly-placed lines. There’s so much to do. When you go see your client, what do you see as the easiest low-hanging fruit that you can easily pick out of the basket to say, “Here, look at this.”

Justin Christianson: Most of the time, I would say the number one thing that people miss the mark on is they lead with the features of their product instead of the benefits to the actual end consumer, the end user. It doesn’t matter what you’re selling. Whether you’re selling computers, whether you’re selling coaching, it doesn’t matter. Beauty products, fitness, it doesn’t matter. All they care about at the end of the say is what’s in it for me as the consumer. Most people just lead and shout how great their product is and all of these cool features that they have instead of tying it back to a specific benefit on what the end user is going to get out of that feature.

Matt Coffy: Totally understand that, and especially in video, man, if people actually did the right copy in their video, they’d convert so much better. I see it all the time when immediately they start talking about how many hours they have spent, how much time they’ve done. I’m like “Really? Come on. You got to get to the ‘What does it do for me’ part immediately right up front.”

Justin Christianson: I see people missing the mark on their headlines with that too. They are always the leader in something. It’s like “Well, I don’t care that you’re the leader. I care about you’re going to do for me.” That’s what it comes down to. It’s just leading with those benefits. It doesn’t matter if it’s an ecommerce store or software as a service or an info product publisher, selling a book, it doesn’t matter. It all comes down to what’s in it for the end consumer.

Matt Coffy: That starts right from the ad copy all the way through to the offer page to the video landing page or whatever it might be that they get on to. Sea congruency has been a big problem in the message. You consider that one of the big challenges especially when dealing with people who have a lot. You sit in front of four, five people in an audience who are like everybody’s got a different opinion. You’re like “Guys, you got to have one message here. Come on.”

Justin Christianson: Yeah. I see it all the time. I mean for instance we were just getting some embroidery done not too long ago and I was shopping around for different companies. I of course started seeing a bunch of ads for them because of retargeting. One of the ads said, “50 percent off your first order.” So I clicked it and it said nothing about 50 percent off my first order. It actually said something about 35 percent off and it didn’t get me any way to claim that discount. It didn’t tell me how to do anything. They were just basically wasting a ton of money on ads.

Matt Coffy: Let’s talk about inbound traffic. I had this discussion the other day with someone who was a HubSpot fanatic and it was impressing because that hadn’t been brought up in a conversation for a long time, that platform. I said the whole gig with inbound marketing which they luckily somehow created by accident. When you look at traffic coming into a site, we look at inbound from organic. We can go down to the page level. We can see what’s actually driving either conversion or, at least from a statistical side, time on site, which I think is another piece that people don’t realize. Where do you look at where you can take advantage of traffic on the inbound side even from a page level? What do you see and typically see where you can make a huge advantage? I’ve got some ideas I want to run by and see what you thought.

Justin Christianson: From there is we try to break it out by channel. I mean, really to see where the traffic is coming from and where it’s going and then where the visitors are falling off because you’re going to have a certain level of balance rate. You’re going to have a certain level of abandon cart or certain level of things. We just try to find those gaps but we treat each channel as its own separate basically entity as if it was its own business because it is. Facebook traffic is going to convert different than organic and organic is going to convert different than Ad Words and things like that. So you have to really treat them as if they’re separate, not just dumping them all and sending them to your home page.

Matt Coffy: You’re talking about 97 percent of the customers right now.

‘It doesn’t matter what you’re selling. All people care about at the end of the day is what’s in it for me as the consumer.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: There’s a lot. There are times when you can send them to your home page. I mean organics are good example of that. Your home page is probably going to rank different than where you can send your PPC traffic, but we see a ton of companies driving all their PPC traffic to their home page and spending $50,000 plus a month instead of being consistent with the message. We just try to treat it completely separate and making sure that it’s leading with one specific call to action in congruency with the ad. So if you tell them something in the ad, they have to see that on the landing page and not get distracted by a bunch of other things. If you have a free trial and you have an opt-in for a white paper or  a free eBook or watch this video and you have a webinar they’d sign up for, don’t give them all those options. Give them one and dial that in from your specific traffic source.

Matt Coffy: I agree 100 percent. Another thing is if you know your time of bounce, meaning that if you got an average time and you can now capture them before they bounce, there are certainly things you can do to protect the leaver from hitting the proverbial back button and giving them that secondary or the first offer in front of it or something to recapture them. A lot of low-hanging fruit that just it’s easy plug-ins for WordPress just to drop these things in and it keeps a percentage of the customers. I know you know more about conversion and more about the funnel strategy and I think that you can probably have a seminar on this at some level. I wanted to talk about mindset as well since we kind of went down the bath originally of saying part of what you do has been mindset strategy. You’ve gone through a couple of iterations and you’ve been down the path or down a couple of different paths. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the things that you’ve done where you’ve been engaged in more of the mindset discussions in some of the places you might have ventured or where you think there’s some value the audience might be interested in or the person who’s listening today on how to help get through, and we talked about this before we started the podcast, about how to get through sort of the proverbial sort of bumps, bruises and knockout punches on the way past or through seven figures as a business? I really do think that maybe it’s a physical barrier that I see but there literally is this thing I keep bouncing off which is they try and push into this seven figure land where we’re bouncing all around there. We’re almost there. But it seems like there are so many pieces that when you get to a certain amount of revenue, there’s a juggernaut of things that need to be accomplished from procedures, SOPs, people, places, things. Give us a little bit of that.

Justin Christianson: I’ve been up and I’ve been down. What I really learned is don’t always focus on the big, big picture. You’re going to have those goals and it’s good to set those big goals. But what I have found to be the most effective is and it’s our philosophy at our company is continuous improvement daily. That’s it. All we try to do is beat and be better than we were yesterday. One of the big mindset shifts to me was instead of saying, “I’m just going to do a million dollars” how do I turn $500,000 into $600,000 or how do I turn that $10,000 a day or $2000 a day into $2500 a day? Just trying to beat that small little score. And then on the other side of it is everybody out there in business, I mean with the social world that we have around us now, everybody shouts how great they are and talks about all these great things but nobody really talks about the bad stuff that comes with business. Every single business person out there faces hardships, faces troubles. There’s been times like how am I going to meet payroll this month as you grow in scale and it’s looking for the positive in even the worst situation and how can I learn from that to make myself better tomorrow instead of stressing and worrying about it. It’s really trying to focus on your positive outcomes and what you can learn from it to make yourself better tomorrow.

Matt Coffy: Do you think this living in the moment stuff is really what the issue is with a lot of people?  I’ve talked about this a lot in my podcasts about not really enjoying the day and enjoying the fact like it seems like my head just gets punched back and forth with all these things that need to be done. But you know what? How lucky are we to be in a society where we don’t have to wake up and worry about anything other than just go and take the emotional challenges of the day and produce more and produce better.               

Justin Christianson: That’s the thing. A lot of people aren’t grateful. They always think that it can be better, which it can. Things can always be better or bigger. You can always make more money. Even when you have a huge level of success, you can always make more. It never ends. So just living in the moment I think is a big thing and it’s one thing that I’ve really kind of struggled with. My entire career is just worrying about what I can control each day instead of worrying about what’s going to happen tomorrow.

Matt Coffy: It’s easy to say, harder to extrapolate what that means from a who’s emergency is more emergency. We kind of get to the point where priority has become priorities which doesn’t even make sense. What, if any, thinking time do we have during the day where we actually have the ability to think “Oh let me put some time towards this” and make sure that we can actually put an effort to really thinking through the process as opposed to “Oh, scrambled eggs thoughts. Let’s get it done, get it out, and put a new plate on the table.”

Justin Christianson: There’s a mix of that I think, but one thing I found extremely beneficial is schedule it. It sounds really simple, but my entire day is scheduled out exactly what I need to do each and every day. There’s time in there to work on different strategies and work on different elements as well as do my normal day-to-day stuff and keeping my priority in check. The second level of that is when one thing I’ve struggled to is letting go and allowing other people who are smarter than me in certain areas do what they do best and finding and hiring and delegating those things instead of thinking “If it’s going to be done, it’s going to be done by me.” I think specifically in that mid to upper six figure range, that’s going to be a harder thing for people to overcome as you expand and grow and being able to rely on other people to basically back up your name and your company.

Matt Coffy: Finding those people. That’s a whole other topic that has become beyond our frameworks of this call, but to me that has become the bane of my existence to live in the ferocity of a US-based society. And I’m not putting blame on any system or whatever. But we seem to get the best candidates to work for us offshore because there’s a different work ethic and it drives me up the wall. Come work for me. You’re 17 Red Bulls deep. You’ve figured out how to do one thing. Where I could go offshore and you got in five minutes the guy has figured the stuff out and it’s done. I’m just stymied because I think it’s the small business affordability issue here in the US where there’s so much infrastructure that you have to pay for where other people don’t have that back-end infrastructure.

Justin Christianson: Yeah. It all comes down to a cost benefit analysis. Another book that has been very helpful to us in that regard is Top Grading where we kind of pick people. It basically ranks people on a scale of ABCD in terms of their performance and their skills in certain areas. When we have C players in certain roles, it’s a big, big, big jump to an A, and when we get an A person in that role, everything gets 10 times easier and it doesn’t really matter the cost at that point because it produces so much more in terms of results when you have the right people. We try to hire everybody here in the US just because we get people in the right roles and everything gets easier and our clients are taken care of much better and it just produces way better results and more revenue all around.

Matt Coffy: I agree with you 100 percent. I think it depends on where the stage of your business is. To me, a lot of people are bootstrapping. A lot of people listening to this are entrepreneurs, solopreneurs. Hiring beyond the first couple of people to me has become boy, you live or die by the sword on that decision. I can’t wait to read the Top Grading book because I’m fascinated with this. But from a mindset perspective, what’s something you can impart with the people who have been on this journey with us for the last 25, 30 minutes on something you would recommend for them to do? And then we’ll wrap it up with things you’re going to be up to and maybe besides the site maybe some event or anything that you’re going to be speaking at.

Justin Christianson: The biggest thing I can say is you’re not alone. There’s everybody else. I mean, find some smart people around you whether it be just people to bounce ideas off of to help support you in your vision, people that are maybe have been there, kind of mentorship in a sense. And then just stick to it. That’s the biggest thing. When it gets the rockiest is when you’re the closest. We’ve seen it time and time again as I’ve grown a couple of different companies is when it’s most painful is when you’re the closest. Just stick it out, push through, and it will be worth the reward in the end.

Matt Coffy: Awesome. Great, great strategy. I totally agree. It is just when you’re starting to feel like you’re having the hardest challenge is that you’re actually close to a breakthrough. I think that’s very true. Tell us just about the site and anything that you want to talk about for your appearances/shows. Where are you gigging next?

‘What I really learned is don’t always focus on the big picture. What’s more important is continuous improvement in a daily basis.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: You can find out more information about our company by going to conversionfanatics.com. That’s plural. You can find information about my book and everything there which links you over to Amazon. And then if you want to connect with me directly on social or anything like that, you can go to clyxo.com/justinchristianson and it will have all the links to everything there.

Matt Coffy: Fantastic, man. Fantastic. I really enjoyed the podcast and I can’t wait to catch up as we move down the road here and see where we are in six to 12 months. It’s been a fascinating discussion. I want to continue this discussion at some point because I do want to have further a little bit deeper on the unspecifics in the conversional strategy, but I really like to keep these to 30 minutes so our second version will be a deep dive into what I consider the analytical approach to solving conversion optimization which involves a lot to do with looking at what you just said which are channels and how you treat each channel and where we need to go on those channels.

Justin Christianson: For sure. I’d be happy to help in any way.

Matt Coffy: Awesome, man. Alright, we’ll talk to you soon.

Justin Christianson: Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it.

The post How To Double Your Sales With A/B Testing With Justin Christianson appeared first on SEO NJ Company.

Conversion Fanatic: How To Double Your Customers, Sales, and Profits With A/B Testing With Justin Christianson

750x240_justin-christianson

In this podcast episode, Matt Coffy interviews bestselling author and conversion genius Justin Christianson about his years of experience running thousands of split tests on hundreds of campaigns and tips you can implement to get more out of your marketing efforts.

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Subscribe to iTunes

Want to Download the PDF transcription? Subscribe below:

Discussion points:

02:15 The type of companies Justin works with

05:00 Justin talks about wrong decisions in the market

06:10 On how Justin and Ryan Levesque got connected

07:47 Justin describes his book writing process

09:00 On how the success of his book affected his career

12:45 On leading with the product features vs the benefits to the consumer

16:25 Where to take advantage of inbound traffic

20:30 The biggest lesson Justin learned

24:00 Time management and scheduling

25:45 Matt gives his opinion on offshore workers

28:22 Justin’s parting words to entrepreneurs and solopreneurs

29:25 Where to find more information about Justin and his company

Show notes

www.conversionfanatics.com – The company website

www.clyxo.com/justinchristianson – Justin’s social media website 

Transcription

Matt Coffy: Justin Christianson on the call today. Justin, say hello.

Justin Christianson: Hey, Matt. Thanks for having me.

Matt Coffy: Yes. I want to first say you’re the first professional bullrider I’ve had on this podcast.

Justin Christianson: I wasn’t quite a professional but I did bang it out around in the amateur ranks for sure.

Matt Coffy: What the hell do you do when you get up on top of a 800 lb animal and it doesn’t like you?

Justin Christianson: Hold on. You’re much safer on their back than you are anywhere else.

Matt Coffy: I just want to ask because I’ve never asked anybody. What compels someone to do that? Being from the northeast, this is something we don’t see.

Justin Christianson: I think a little bit is stupidity in that, but it’s nothing quite like the rush of doing it. But I just kind of grew up around it. So that’s what happens.

Matt Coffy: I suppose so if you’re just kind of used to it, you’re just kind of used to it and it’s just something that it happens. Of course we’re going to talk about some conversion strategy which you’re well entrenched in and I’m interested to talk to you about. I’m also interested in talking to you about mindset stuff. Give us just a two second, not history, but what you’re doing today and who you’re doing it for and then we’ll get into the questions.

Justin Christianson: Basically, we do conversion rate optimization. We do the split testing and the heavy lifting for companies to help them get more out of their advertising effort is essentially what we do.

Matt Coffy: For what size companies, that’s what I meant?

Justin Christianson: I guess probably the smallest we work with is probably in the 3 million range, but our sweet spot is kind of the 10-50 million range in revenue.

Matt Coffy: Gotcha. Is this your one environment that you work in or do you have multiple environments that you work in? Because a lot of guys like yourself will do coaching and I know you have a book out. There’s a lot of things that I want to talk to you about. But is that your one central sort of square now where you kind of hang your hat?

Justin Christianson: Yeah, yeah. I mean all of my focus is pretty much on conversion fanatics and building the company along with my business partner and team.

Matt Coffy: Gotcha, gotcha. It’s interesting because there’s so many different ways-I was thinking about this today-there’s so many different ways to run an internet marketing strategy and internet marketing business. With the commonalities between all the different platforms, once you get I’d say three or four years into this business, you have so much ammo. You could put your finger down anywhere and help anybody because there’s so much to do. I always thought the channels for us would be good. We run both wholesale and retail digital marketing for different environments with lots of different variations on a theme, and I always thought channels would be good. Then I was thinking guys like yourself are going after these very large environments where you’re basically taking what you’ve learned and grown it up into bigger accounts, at least that’s the way I kind of perceive it as.

Justin Christianson: Yeah, we definitely. I mean there’s a whole big world of business out there. We kind of stepped up the level of company that we work with and found that we can deliver much more value to those type of companies. So it’s just been a really good fit for our company in terms of growth.

Matt Coffy: What do you think from your perspective of seeing what you see in the market, where is the biggest hole right now where people haven’t made the right decisions yet?

Justin Christianson: I guess where I see it especially people kind of pushing that gap maybe trying to go from six figures to maybe their seven figure year is they’re really not focused. A lot of them have a lot of shiny objects syndrome. They think the next software is going to help them rather than just sticking with the basics and then being really, really consistent at doing that and then tweaking it to make it work in their favor in terms of numbers, put a dollar in, get $3 out. I think a lot of this is the stick-to-it-iveness with one particular method and not worrying about what the latest trend is with Snapchat or something like that instead of just focusing on where your customers are coming from and really expanding on what’s working. A lot of people don’t do that, the 80-20 rule and really narrow down to what’s proving out to be the most effective in their businesses.

Matt Coffy: It’s interesting that the foreword to your book was written by Ryan Levesque. That is a well-known name. How did you guys get started up? Is that from your speaking days?

‘The number one thing that people miss the mark on is they lead with the features of their product instead of the benefits.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: Well, he actually just lives about 20 minutes north of me, and it was weird because we’ve kind have been in the same circles but we had never officially met until actually after he wrote the foreword to my book. He was the only person that I asked to write the foreword and he said he gets asked a lot but he truly believed in what I sent him in terms of the book and he agreed. I had respected for what he did for the book Ask and all of the things he had done and come to find out after reading Ask it was actually mentioned in the acknowledgments of the completion, and we have really never officially interacted or worked together. But apparently I impacted him in some way as well as he did me.

Matt Coffy: It’s amazing how those things do happen when you don’t realize how physically close you are to someone, and you’re like “Holy crap! Next town!”

Justin Christianson: Yeah for sure.

Matt Coffy: Moving to the book-and I’ve had another discussion about books because I’m in the process of establishing my first table of contents and a couple of first pages of getting through the iterations of what it should be. How did you end up going into the book writing process? Because I know it’s almost like giving birth at some point. It’s like a long duration, at least for me it seems now even though I’m in the very infantile business of it. Can you talk a little bit about what got you started in that?

Justin Christianson: Well, writing a book had always kind of been in my bucket list for basically my entire career or the latter part of the years I’ve been in the digital marketing world. But I’ve never really had the official outlet for what I wanted to write about. There are so many different digital marketing books out there, and when I started really specializing in optimization, that’s when I’d found the need as we were working with more and more clients on educating people on the importance of optimization and split testing. More so everybody shouts from the rooftops on how you need more traffic and the latest traffic techniques and strategies there, but nobody was really talking about the other piece of the puzzle and that was the optimization. So I found people needed to be a little bit more educated on the importance of it and that’s what prompted me to write on that specific topic.

Matt Coffy: What did you find when you wrote the book how it impacted your career?

Justin Christianson: Fortunately enough it was a best seller. But it became number one on several different categories on Amazon. But I think it brought a lot more credibility to me and the services we provide. I didn’t set out for this to be the way it turned out but it’s kind of turned into kind of the glorified business card and there’s more credibility in the best-selling author status than just saying, “Hey, I’m a conversion rate optimization specialist.” It’s really helped in terms of the size of audience that we’re going after to really bring that level of credibility.

Matt Coffy: I understand that. I was wondering because obviously that’s sort of what book writing today is about. Most people think of it as sort of a sales tool as opposed to just writing a book about something and have it to be a legacy type of thing. I was wondering when you wrote the book, did you have an avatar you were thinking about? Because that’s my biggest challenge right now. I’m picking your brain on purpose on this one.

Justin Christianson: No. It’s kind of weird. I didn’t really have a specific person in mind. All I wanted to do was write a book that wasn’t fluffy because I read a ton of books. I read over 50 books last year and majority of them are just fluffed up. Since I was self-publishing it, I can do pretty much whatever I wanted. It’s a relatively short book at only 150 pages but I wanted to pack it with information that was tangible and actionable rather than just a bunch of hyped-up theory. I backed it up with a lot of case studies and specific examples and things we’ve learned actually being in the trenches. I didn’t really have a specific avatar in mind when I wrote it other than I’ve heard great feedback from people that are just beginning in their digital marketing careers all the way up to extremely-seasoned professionals saying that this was the best book written on the topic period. I’ve seen it kind of mix. So it appeals to a couple of different audiences and basically anybody who’s in digital marketing has learned something from it, at least what I’ve seen from the feedback.

Matt Coffy: Most of our customers are in the smaller range. Obviously you’ve got some pretty large customers. But it doesn’t matter really. At the end of the day, it’s all the same stuff to a degree. There’s a lot of low-hanging fruit. There’s a lot of like basic stuff. Even today when a customer came in and sat down at my office and was questioning, “What are you guys doing” blah, blah, blah. I’m like “Well, if you gave us your Ad Words account, we’d actually get you some sales. They ended up doing that and I said, “Look, no one even has a compelling headline. Like all your competitors are just like ‘Here’s our product. Buy it.’” I’m like there’s very limited, and this still stymies me. That we think because we’re in the space that everybody know this stuff. Really it’s like maybe 2 percent of the people actually know about what to do. And then of that 2 percent only a third of them are actually doing it correctly. I think this is just a monstrous market, and you’re right, no matter where you are if you put your finger down in small business, medium business, there’s so much ground to cover because there’s an act of copywriting, there’s poorly-placed lines. There’s so much to do. When you go see your client, what do you see as the easiest low-hanging fruit that you can easily pick out of the basket to say, “Here, look at this.”

Justin Christianson: Most of the time, I would say the number one thing that people miss the mark on is they lead with the features of their product instead of the benefits to the actual end consumer, the end user. It doesn’t matter what you’re selling. Whether you’re selling computers, whether you’re selling coaching, it doesn’t matter. Beauty products, fitness, it doesn’t matter. All they care about at the end of the say is what’s in it for me as the consumer. Most people just lead and shout how great their product is and all of these cool features that they have instead of tying it back to a specific benefit on what the end user is going to get out of that feature.

Matt Coffy: Totally understand that, and especially in video, man, if people actually did the right copy in their video, they’d convert so much better. I see it all the time when immediately they start talking about how many hours they have spent, how much time they’ve done. I’m like “Really? Come on. You got to get to the ‘What does it do for me’ part immediately right up front.”

Justin Christianson: I see people missing the mark on their headlines with that too. They are always the leader in something. It’s like “Well, I don’t care that you’re the leader. I care about you’re going to do for me.” That’s what it comes down to. It’s just leading with those benefits. It doesn’t matter if it’s an ecommerce store or software as a service or an info product publisher, selling a book, it doesn’t matter. It all comes down to what’s in it for the end consumer.

Matt Coffy: That starts right from the ad copy all the way through to the offer page to the video landing page or whatever it might be that they get on to. Sea congruency has been a big problem in the message. You consider that one of the big challenges especially when dealing with people who have a lot. You sit in front of four, five people in an audience who are like everybody’s got a different opinion. You’re like “Guys, you got to have one message here. Come on.”

Justin Christianson: Yeah. I see it all the time. I mean for instance we were just getting some embroidery done not too long ago and I was shopping around for different companies. I of course started seeing a bunch of ads for them because of retargeting. One of the ads said, “50 percent off your first order.” So I clicked it and it said nothing about 50 percent off my first order. It actually said something about 35 percent off and it didn’t get me any way to claim that discount. It didn’t tell me how to do anything. They were just basically wasting a ton of money on ads.

Matt Coffy: Let’s talk about inbound traffic. I had this discussion the other day with someone who was a HubSpot fanatic and it was impressing because that hadn’t been brought up in a conversation for a long time, that platform. I said the whole gig with inbound marketing which they luckily somehow created by accident. When you look at traffic coming into a site, we look at inbound from organic. We can go down to the page level. We can see what’s actually driving either conversion or, at least from a statistical side, time on site, which I think is another piece that people don’t realize. Where do you look at where you can take advantage of traffic on the inbound side even from a page level? What do you see and typically see where you can make a huge advantage? I’ve got some ideas I want to run by and see what you thought.

Justin Christianson: From there is we try to break it out by channel. I mean, really to see where the traffic is coming from and where it’s going and then where the visitors are falling off because you’re going to have a certain level of balance rate. You’re going to have a certain level of abandon cart or certain level of things. We just try to find those gaps but we treat each channel as its own separate basically entity as if it was its own business because it is. Facebook traffic is going to convert different than organic and organic is going to convert different than Ad Words and things like that. So you have to really treat them as if they’re separate, not just dumping them all and sending them to your home page.

Matt Coffy: You’re talking about 97 percent of the customers right now.

‘It doesn’t matter what you’re selling. All people care about at the end of the day is what’s in it for me as the consumer.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: There’s a lot. There are times when you can send them to your home page. I mean organics are good example of that. Your home page is probably going to rank different than where you can send your PPC traffic, but we see a ton of companies driving all their PPC traffic to their home page and spending $50,000 plus a month instead of being consistent with the message. We just try to treat it completely separate and making sure that it’s leading with one specific call to action in congruency with the ad. So if you tell them something in the ad, they have to see that on the landing page and not get distracted by a bunch of other things. If you have a free trial and you have an opt-in for a white paper or  a free eBook or watch this video and you have a webinar they’d sign up for, don’t give them all those options. Give them one and dial that in from your specific traffic source.

Matt Coffy: I agree 100 percent. Another thing is if you know your time of bounce, meaning that if you got an average time and you can now capture them before they bounce, there are certainly things you can do to protect the leaver from hitting the proverbial back button and giving them that secondary or the first offer in front of it or something to recapture them. A lot of low-hanging fruit that just it’s easy plug-ins for WordPress just to drop these things in and it keeps a percentage of the customers. I know you know more about conversion and more about the funnel strategy and I think that you can probably have a seminar on this at some level. I wanted to talk about mindset as well since we kind of went down the bath originally of saying part of what you do has been mindset strategy. You’ve gone through a couple of iterations and you’ve been down the path or down a couple of different paths. Can you tell me a little bit about some of the things that you’ve done where you’ve been engaged in more of the mindset discussions in some of the places you might have ventured or where you think there’s some value the audience might be interested in or the person who’s listening today on how to help get through, and we talked about this before we started the podcast, about how to get through sort of the proverbial sort of bumps, bruises and knockout punches on the way past or through seven figures as a business? I really do think that maybe it’s a physical barrier that I see but there literally is this thing I keep bouncing off which is they try and push into this seven figure land where we’re bouncing all around there. We’re almost there. But it seems like there are so many pieces that when you get to a certain amount of revenue, there’s a juggernaut of things that need to be accomplished from procedures, SOPs, people, places, things. Give us a little bit of that.

Justin Christianson: I’ve been up and I’ve been down. What I really learned is don’t always focus on the big, big picture. You’re going to have those goals and it’s good to set those big goals. But what I have found to be the most effective is and it’s our philosophy at our company is continuous improvement daily. That’s it. All we try to do is beat and be better than we were yesterday. One of the big mindset shifts to me was instead of saying, “I’m just going to do a million dollars” how do I turn $500,000 into $600,000 or how do I turn that $10,000 a day or $2000 a day into $2500 a day? Just trying to beat that small little score. And then on the other side of it is everybody out there in business, I mean with the social world that we have around us now, everybody shouts how great they are and talks about all these great things but nobody really talks about the bad stuff that comes with business. Every single business person out there faces hardships, faces troubles. There’s been times like how am I going to meet payroll this month as you grow in scale and it’s looking for the positive in even the worst situation and how can I learn from that to make myself better tomorrow instead of stressing and worrying about it. It’s really trying to focus on your positive outcomes and what you can learn from it to make yourself better tomorrow.

Matt Coffy: Do you think this living in the moment stuff is really what the issue is with a lot of people?  I’ve talked about this a lot in my podcasts about not really enjoying the day and enjoying the fact like it seems like my head just gets punched back and forth with all these things that need to be done. But you know what? How lucky are we to be in a society where we don’t have to wake up and worry about anything other than just go and take the emotional challenges of the day and produce more and produce better.               

Justin Christianson: That’s the thing. A lot of people aren’t grateful. They always think that it can be better, which it can. Things can always be better or bigger. You can always make more money. Even when you have a huge level of success, you can always make more. It never ends. So just living in the moment I think is a big thing and it’s one thing that I’ve really kind of struggled with. My entire career is just worrying about what I can control each day instead of worrying about what’s going to happen tomorrow.

Matt Coffy: It’s easy to say, harder to extrapolate what that means from a who’s emergency is more emergency. We kind of get to the point where priority has become priorities which doesn’t even make sense. What, if any, thinking time do we have during the day where we actually have the ability to think “Oh let me put some time towards this” and make sure that we can actually put an effort to really thinking through the process as opposed to “Oh, scrambled eggs thoughts. Let’s get it done, get it out, and put a new plate on the table.”

Justin Christianson: There’s a mix of that I think, but one thing I found extremely beneficial is schedule it. It sounds really simple, but my entire day is scheduled out exactly what I need to do each and every day. There’s time in there to work on different strategies and work on different elements as well as do my normal day-to-day stuff and keeping my priority in check. The second level of that is when one thing I’ve struggled to is letting go and allowing other people who are smarter than me in certain areas do what they do best and finding and hiring and delegating those things instead of thinking “If it’s going to be done, it’s going to be done by me.” I think specifically in that mid to upper six figure range, that’s going to be a harder thing for people to overcome as you expand and grow and being able to rely on other people to basically back up your name and your company.

Matt Coffy: Finding those people. That’s a whole other topic that has become beyond our frameworks of this call, but to me that has become the bane of my existence to live in the ferocity of a US-based society. And I’m not putting blame on any system or whatever. But we seem to get the best candidates to work for us offshore because there’s a different work ethic and it drives me up the wall. Come work for me. You’re 17 Red Bulls deep. You’ve figured out how to do one thing. Where I could go offshore and you got in five minutes the guy has figured the stuff out and it’s done. I’m just stymied because I think it’s the small business affordability issue here in the US where there’s so much infrastructure that you have to pay for where other people don’t have that back-end infrastructure.

Justin Christianson: Yeah. It all comes down to a cost benefit analysis. Another book that has been very helpful to us in that regard is Top Grading where we kind of pick people. It basically ranks people on a scale of ABCD in terms of their performance and their skills in certain areas. When we have C players in certain roles, it’s a big, big, big jump to an A, and when we get an A person in that role, everything gets 10 times easier and it doesn’t really matter the cost at that point because it produces so much more in terms of results when you have the right people. We try to hire everybody here in the US just because we get people in the right roles and everything gets easier and our clients are taken care of much better and it just produces way better results and more revenue all around.

Matt Coffy: I agree with you 100 percent. I think it depends on where the stage of your business is. To me, a lot of people are bootstrapping. A lot of people listening to this are entrepreneurs, solopreneurs. Hiring beyond the first couple of people to me has become boy, you live or die by the sword on that decision. I can’t wait to read the Top Grading book because I’m fascinated with this. But from a mindset perspective, what’s something you can impart with the people who have been on this journey with us for the last 25, 30 minutes on something you would recommend for them to do? And then we’ll wrap it up with things you’re going to be up to and maybe besides the site maybe some event or anything that you’re going to be speaking at.

Justin Christianson: The biggest thing I can say is you’re not alone. There’s everybody else. I mean, find some smart people around you whether it be just people to bounce ideas off of to help support you in your vision, people that are maybe have been there, kind of mentorship in a sense. And then just stick to it. That’s the biggest thing. When it gets the rockiest is when you’re the closest. We’ve seen it time and time again as I’ve grown a couple of different companies is when it’s most painful is when you’re the closest. Just stick it out, push through, and it will be worth the reward in the end.

Matt Coffy: Awesome. Great, great strategy. I totally agree. It is just when you’re starting to feel like you’re having the hardest challenge is that you’re actually close to a breakthrough. I think that’s very true. Tell us just about the site and anything that you want to talk about for your appearances/shows. Where are you gigging next?

‘What I really learned is don’t always focus on the big picture. What’s more important is continuous improvement in a daily basis.’ -Justin ChristiansonClick To Tweet

Justin Christianson: You can find out more information about our company by going to conversionfanatics.com. That’s plural. You can find information about my book and everything there which links you over to Amazon. And then if you want to connect with me directly on social or anything like that, you can go to clyxo.com/justinchristianson and it will have all the links to everything there.

Matt Coffy: Fantastic, man. Fantastic. I really enjoyed the podcast and I can’t wait to catch up as we move down the road here and see where we are in six to 12 months. It’s been a fascinating discussion. I want to continue this discussion at some point because I do want to have further a little bit deeper on the unspecifics in the conversional strategy, but I really like to keep these to 30 minutes so our second version will be a deep dive into what I consider the analytical approach to solving conversion optimization which involves a lot to do with looking at what you just said which are channels and how you treat each channel and where we need to go on those channels.

Justin Christianson: For sure. I’d be happy to help in any way.

Matt Coffy: Awesome, man. Alright, we’ll talk to you soon.

Justin Christianson: Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it.

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The Pusher And The Art Of Possibility

In this Growing Business Faster podcast episode, Matt Coffy talks about the journey of unending growth in life and business. Life is a race. You can either be a spectator and watch life go by or join the race and enjoy each moment becoming better.

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Discussion points

01:40 Battle of mediocrity

04:57 The conversion of the seemingly meaningless to the joyful specific

06:04 Joining the race of constant expansion

Transcription

Welcome to another episode of the journal read which I do every couple of times during the week. I pick journal entries that I have written in the past and talk about them. In this case, we are talking about the pusher and the art of possibility. If you’re into entrepreneurial thought or into the business growth or even lift growth, this is a great place to start because I’ve got some great information here. Experience is the best teacher, and we’ve been able to, as a company, grow to a substantial point where we have higher employees and benefits and deal with day-to-day business. If you’re on your initial growth into becoming a business owner or if you’re in your initial growth stages of the business, this is again a great place to hear some of the things that I’ve kind of figured out as I have been able to go through this very short period of time of growing a business.

Now we’re going to get on to the episode here and we’re going to talk about really the wakeup. I mean the wakeup of trying to think about life in general as it moves along. The pusher.

If you wake up one day and find that the pusher of souls is you, and you’re the one who thinks differently, to understand that this is not about retirement in the end. It’s about reviving in the end. The battle of mediocrity is at the heart of this matter. We all have the balance of life and business. But why not expand? As life goes on and grows without us anyways, we can decide to have the ordinary or push for the extraordinary. The big changes that occur are related to making big decisions and sticking to them.

“The big changes that occur are related to making big decisions and sticking to them.” -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

 A great example of this is that in 2015, I decided to have an event for our company and for other people who are vendors and other people who wanted to go with us in Mexico. We had actually I think a year in advance to talk about how do we build an event. We had it a few months ago and it was absolutely amazing. So sticking to big decisions is really what I’m talking about here. Making your mind up and following through.

It’s a big decision way beyond most people’s ability to conceive, right? Yes, in the scale of things, it’s only potential, just like a marathon. A marathon is really to us or to me an amazing thing that I would do. I couldn’t imagine doing a marathon. However, for some people it’s only a two or three-hour sprint. Races like the Barkley which is a 60-hour race through 100 miles of mountainous jungle, now that’s a real race for some people. It’s really the art of thinking or the art of possibility that you have to think about when you move along this journey and to push yourself into this new places, more importantly push others.

Why has this mediocrity become woven in our fabric? What is the gigantic challenge? As people move on in their life, sedentary activity comes into play. Parents especially in older last generation have the comfort of a TV and the comfort of a place where they can just rest where today it’s so much opportunity to really look at the things you can do, the travel, the places that you can do, the people that you can meet. These things need to take hold.

What if you were the pusher? What if you were the one who was the one in front of this with your sword swinging and your clarion call saying that you’re going to move ahead and push? The art of possibility of growth and expansion even as we grow old, so these things to push ourselves, not like an endless treadmill but to expose ourselves and continue the story without getting lost, without getting lost into sitting down and relaxing and then that’s it. The retirement village.

“You don’t have to win, but to be in the race of constant expansion, you’ll never die empty-handed.” -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

The reality is is that your story can continue, and that’s where this story begins in these pages. The story of a never-ending growth, pushing ahead and those that want to join in this story, the conversion of the seemingly meaningless to the joyful specific. What I mean by that is if I hadn’t planned out going to put together our event in Mexico, which we just had a year ago, the joy out of that event was amazing being on top of a building overlooking the ocean, the people and the event and the great stories-all these things would have never happened. That’s a joyful specific situation that was created. Big thinking, the art of possibility.

Those that hear this clarion call that I’ve mentioned before, to battle mediocrity, to be in the fight, to change, it’s hard work. It takes consistency. But the rewards are so big. I won’t have it any other way personally. I will continue to grow and expand even into my later stages of my 70s and 80s. I will always be looking to grow and expand.

‘If you want to be in the race, put the race number on and finish.’ -Matt CoffyClick To Tweet

We have to sit and watch the world go by without a race number if you want to be mediocre. If you want to be in the race, put the race number on and finish. You don’t have to win, but to be in the race of constant expansion, you’ll never die empty-handed. Long after our short experience on this planet, your legacy will continue.

Alright. I hope you enjoyed this session. Will catch you in the next one. Have a great day!

 

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